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Hi Johannes,

is there a chance for a moinmoin upgrade to 1.2.2? Sometimes the wiki is quite slow here. FastCgi, mod_python and twisted could help maybe. Maybe it is also cause by the mail server only sometimes working. Especially saves are slow.

BTW: Moin 1.2 has themes now, maybe you can use that for here.

-- MoinMoin:ThomasWaldmann

I'll look into it when my new SSH keys are up on creosote. -- JohannesGijsbers

Does this "too wide" problem noted at top of RecentChanges page still happen? -- ThomasWaldmann [[DateTime(2004-06-30T20:16:04Z)]]

Yes. Another thing I should look at when my keys are up. I've got a copy of 'Designing with Web Standards' here though, so I think I'll be able to fix it, thanks to the hint above. -- JohannesGijsbers
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Hey, great. Nice to see a current moin here. ;) If you have questions, come to #moin. -- ThomasWaldmann [[DateTime(2004-07-25T17:35:58Z)]] Hey, great. Nice to see a current moin here. ;) If you have questions, come to #moin. BTW, do not forget to clean up the user accounts. -- ThomasWaldmann [[DateTime(2004-07-25T17:35:58Z)]]

Another thing: maybe also upgrade the system and help pages, there were some changes and updates on them.

See JohannesGijsbers for more on me, but I'm subscribed to this page, so you can leave me messages here.

Email: jlgijsbers at planet dot nl


So, if we had a nice pattern repository wiki, we could write about decorate-sort-undecorate there and link to it... {;D}= -- LionKimbro DateTime(2003-11-21T22:18:39Z)

PortlandPatternRepository? ;) -- JohannesGijsbers

Two thoughts:

  • I'd like a focused design patterns community.

  • I'd like a block patterns community.

I think that there is a type of pattern that people use within a procedure.

For an example of a basic one, there is the ForLoop.

But there are also others, like FirstTimeSeperate versus FirstTimeIntegrated.

That is, do you:

   1 first_time_a()
   2 always_b()
   3 first_time_c()
   4 always_d()
   5 
   6 while condition:
   7   always_b()
   8   always_d()

...or do you...

   1 first=1
   2 
   3 while condition:
   4     if first: first_time_a()
   5     always_b()
   6     if first: first_time_c()
   7     always_d()
   8     first=0

Surely, there are advantages to each one, no?

I taught beginning programmers for 2 years. I found that I didn't have words for a lot of things that I was trying to explain to them. Now I think I have the word for it: a "block pattern."

I think a site of block patterns would be interesting, and very beneficial for study by beginners.

DecorateSortUndecorate may be a block pattern. But maybe not- maybe it's an algorithmic pattern. But are they that different?

Speaking of algorithms- we need multiple algorithms wiki. {:)}=

Good talking with you. Feel free to delete whenever you like.

-- LionKimbro DateTime(2003-11-22T04:45:20Z)

What do you mean with a block pattern? It seems like another level of Scope (as in the DesignPatternsBook). -- JohannesGijsbers


As for DP: Yes, it is a matter of scope.

My design patterns book isn't about how you arrange your lines and variables within a function. It's about how you arrange your collection of classes, objects. I want "block design patterns," to give my students who are just trying to figure out how to write a function.

Like: "NestedLoops," to do things like cycling over lists of lists, and hitting all of them.

I've been programming since I was 7 years old. When I took CS in college, I got to watch people smarter than I am struggle with how to calculate out a multiplication table, or follow two pointers in a row.

I don't think they're stupid. I think that I just figured out, through trial and error, in my first years of programming, how to make these basic structures.

It'd be nice to have a systematic way to teach those basic "block" patterns. (I'm just making up the term.)

-- LionKimbro

I see what you're getting at. How about "ProceduralPatterns", with block patterns being one of the scopes involved. The other scope would probably be about splitting things up into functions. -- JohannesGijsbers

Yes,yes, that's exactly it. Though I don't think it should polute this wiki. :) -- LionKimbro


The problem with RecentChanges getting too wide is simple (but probably not so simple to fix). You've got a table with column widths specified in a mix of absolute pixels and relative percentages, and that's a recipie for trouble. I'm tempted to say that the best fix would be to lose the space-wasting totem column on the left, but I suppose that's part of the "branding is more important than content" thing. :-( Failing that, I seem to recall having read about a couple of different ways of working around this sort of problem at alistapart.com. Or was it in Designing with Web Standards? I can't lay hands on it just now...


Well, I've upgraded to Moin 1.2.3 with Python 2.3 and am using themes in addition to my hacky approach. I'll now try to fit my hacky approach into themes, and investigate using FastCgi, mod_python or twisted after that. -- JohannesGijsbers

Oh, I forgot to mention the 'too wide' problem went away because of the upgrade. I've now fitted my hacky approach into themes, so you can use other themes without seeing the python.org sidebar. -- JohannesGijsbers

Hey, great. Nice to see a current moin here. ;) If you have questions, come to #moin. BTW, do not forget to clean up the user accounts. -- ThomasWaldmann DateTime(2004-07-25T17:35:58Z)

Another thing: maybe also upgrade the system and help pages, there were some changes and updates on them.


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