pip syncup meeting

UX
Bernard, Sumana, Georgia
29 Jan 2020


	*     Go through the UX issues (from the wiki) and make sure that we understand each of them
		* BT/GB do it later in detail. 
		* Simply Secure to review the tickets and write notes in the wiki 
	*     Understand the tagging system etc
		* later - do in detail, maybe Zulip
	*     Scheduling a telephone call with the maintainers
		*         to understand "how does pip work"
			* Bernard read:
				* start with https://pip.pypa.io/en/latest/development/getting-started/
				* https://www.pypa.io/en/latest/presentations/
				* https://pip.pypa.io/en/latest/development/architecture/
				* Also read https://www.b-list.org/weblog/2020/jan/05/packaging/
				* ask (better) questions to dev
			* can we be onboarded as new-contributors
		*         their understanding of users issues and frustrations
	*     Talk about collaboration modes, e.g. longer term work, shorter term needs
		*         Zulip & irc: Are there connected rooms? What rooms/streams are the right rooms?
			* IRC is popular in the community, usually on freenode
			* #debian-python on OFTC where some people are
			* community/outreach/office hours: spend time in IRC to community (but also see "User Interviews / Participant Outreach" section below)
			* devs/maintainers: comms via Zulip
			* Can connect an irc client to Zulip > Sumana will send to Bernard, but also look for that and see if you can find the tool
				* Pradyun, barging in on these notes: PSF's zulip instance seems to have "IRC" stream with the "#python-dev" topic, watching Freenode's #python-dev.
	* PIP!
			* pip download packages
			* setuptools -- part of making a package
			* twine > uploadibg package to to pypi website
			* warehouse > drives the db for pypi website
			* Sumana has been sheparding all devs into zulip (not all are there yet)
			* Bernard rtfm pip readme
			* check out chat.zulip.org - Zulip about 
	* !GitHub: Can we have a UX project or some tags in some way on !GitHub so we're in the same ecosystem? Should we just use the packaging-problems repo as our main place on !GitHub? can we use issues in that repo: https://github.com/pypa/packaging-problems/issues?
			* Go ahead and use pypa/packaging-problems.
	*     User Interviews / Participant Outreach
		*         OK to go ahead and start doing outreach?
			* pass the recruitment content via Sumana and she'll give us feedback about direct to or via Sumana
		* Or should we go via Sumana/PyFo to start talking to potential users?
		*         Where should/can we discuss this outreach?
		* Below are some places to start.
			* mailing lists
				* https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/python-virtualenv
				* https://discuss.python.org/ ,  in particular "Packaging" on discuss.python.org  <https://discuss.python.org/c/packaging> but also the Users area
				* https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list a general list mentioned on https://www.python.org/community/lists/
				* https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/distutils-sig.python.org/ Distutils-SIG on mail.python.org
				* various venues for PyPA contributor/maintainer communication include pypa-dev on Google Groups <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/pypa-dev>
				* Brazil list(s) like https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/python-brasil  
				* language-specific lists like https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-de and https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-es
				* wheel-builders https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/wheel-builders -- people who make Python packages and distribute them as "wheels"
				* a large, broad "PSF community" mailing list https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-community
				* the Carpentries "discuss" mailing list https://carpentries.topicbox.com/groups/discuss which has lots of Python users who work in the sciences
			* IRC channels
				*    - #pypa-dev on freenode
				* #debian-python on OFTC
			* blogs
				* pyfound.blogspot.com/
				* https://importpython.com/newsletter/
			* podcasts
				* https://talkpython.fm/
				* https://changelog.com/rfc
			* social media
				* use #Python on Twitter, Mastodon
				* I don't have good suggestions regarding Facebook
			* conferences
				* https://scipy.org/
				* local programming clubs that are not particularly about Python but that end up using it, like Machine Learning groups/meetups
			* !GitHub
				* https://github.com/pypa/packaging-problems/
				* particular issues marked "ux" or similar in https://github.com/pypa/pip/ 
				* look for users in https://github.com/pypa/packaging.python.org/
			* ......
	*     FOSDEM
		*         will everyone/anyone be there?
				* not sure
				* * TODO: Sumana
	*     Infrastructure: What should be our testing setup be to actually look at issues? (e.g. running locally)
		* covered by developer setup https://pip.pypa.io/en/latest/development/getting-started/
		*         Confirm reported issues, experience them
		*         Looking at current development work